04-30-2012 09:56 AM
As Chris replied above, that's patently (and very unfortunately) untrue. They claim full copyright of everything you post on this domain. That's why I stopped posting code here and only post PNG screenshots now.
Is there a document where they state that? The only relevant T&C I found doesn't claim exclusive ownership of the code.
(This isn't relevant since we'll be hosting off-site, but it is interesting nonetheless.)
04-30-2012 10:01 AM
https://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-13146#comment-19825
That's a reply to a post I made where I highlighted some of the sterner-sounding phrases in the T&C.
04-30-2012 10:18 AM
I've been following all these discussions (dependencies, API contest, etc.) from a distance and I'm really enjoying them! I don't have much to contribute directly but I love all the momentum and enthusiasm and I like where it's all headed.
With respect to the copyright discussion (because it's an area of personal interest, and at the risk of taking this discussion too far afield), I agree with Daklu. There's nothing in any of the links posted so far that indicate NI claiming exclusive ownership or copyright over user-submitted code. All the language is about allowing NI to use/modify/redistribute user-submitted content, but there's nothing about taking away your rights to do continue the same.
With regard to Staab's comment:
That's why I stopped posting code here and only post PNG screenshots now.
That's a distinction without a difference. Per the Ts & Cs (under User Contributions😞
you authorize NI to copy, disclose, distribute, incorporate, translate and otherwise use the Communications and all related data, images, sound, and text for any and all purposes.
That means they can take the PNG of your code and reimplement it in source and use it "for any and all purposes." It could be in PNG, or VI, or haiku. The point is NI is free to do what they want with it, but the second point is that that doesn't mean you don't still own the copyright to it.
04-30-2012 10:27 AM
Thanks, Justin. That helps a bit.
As I said in my post from February in the other document, IANAL. So I'd really love it if someone could explain to me in greatly simplified detail -- as if I were a 4 year old -- how to interpret and respond to the NI.com T&C in order to retain full control over the copyright of IP I've developed. Maybe it should be made another discussion...
04-30-2012 10:45 AM
Thanks, Justin. That helps a bit.
No problem, I'm glad it helps. Licensing & IP issues have been a pet hobby of mine for a long time, so I tend to pop up when discussions go that way.
As I said in my post from February in the other document, IANAL. So I'd really love it if someone could explain to me in greatly simplified detail -- as if I were a 4 year old -- how to interpret and respond to the NI.com T&C in order to retain full control over the copyright of IP I've developed. Maybe it should be made another discussion...
IANAL either, but that won't stop me from acting like one .
To me, the bottom line is simple: if you want "full control" over IP you've developed, don't post it here. It's that simple. By posting code (or any other contributions) on NI.com (or LAVA, or most anywhere else) you give others certain rights to modify and redistribute that code. The particulars vary from site to site, but if you want to retain absolute full control over what you've developed, either don't talk about it at all or do so on a site you control.
04-30-2012 11:03 AM
This contest sounds like a good idea.
I would suggest the documents here: https://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-21981
are used as a starting point to creating the APIs and that anything learned during this contest is used to make those documents better.
I would love to participate as a contestant, unfortunately there is no way I can commit to 4 - 6 rounds. I never know when I am going to be extremeley busy with a project that will have me working 16hrs/day including weekends.
04-30-2012 11:30 AM
justin.goeres wrote:
The particulars vary from site to site, but if you want to retain absolute full control over what you've developed, either don't talk about it at all or do so on a site you control.
Looks like I need to get cracking on StaabEngineering.com, if only to provide myself a blog and a public code repository.
04-30-2012 12:34 PM
FabiolaDelaCueva wrote:
I would love to participate as a contestant, unfortunately there is no way I can commit to 4 - 6 rounds. I never know when I am going to be extremeley busy with a project that will have me working 16hrs/day including weekends.
Yeah, we're all in the same boat--other responsibilities may pull us away at any time. I don't expect hard committments from participants, just a willingness to put forth a good faith effort to get things done in a reasonable time frame. We won't hate on anyone if they have to drop out. In fact, I'd rather have you do a couple rounds and drop out than not participate at all.
Here's what I am anticipating in terms of man-hours:
-Attacking will be the most time-consuming task, which is why everyone is encouraged to do it. Hopefully having lots of eyes on the code will reveal obscure flaws we should know about. It is not a requirement for anyone (other than me) to participate in it. (But it will be a really slow contest if I'm the only one doing it.)
-The time required for developers to implement their component is directly related to the complexity of their api design. My current idea for the component is fairly straightforward. I'm aiming for an average of 2 hours or so to implement. You might spend more time than that thinking about how to implement it, but I don't think the actual screen time will be too bad. If the api is complex I might ask for an example vi showing how to use it.
If you (especially Fabiola, Justin, and jcarmody--I see you lurking in the dark ) are concerned with being unable to commit the time to do this, there are several options:
-Start the contest anyway. If you have to drop out somebody else might be able to pick up where you left off.
-Group with other developers to jointly develop a single component. Share the workload.
-Intentionally implement an api using common but less adaptable technologies. Yes, it will probably break sooner than more sophisticated entries. We won't think less of you as a developer. In the end we'll need code examples showing how design decisions by the component author can affect users in unpredictable ways. To do that we'll need people willing to code an api without using the latest technologies and techniques. (I'm hoping there will be at least a few people willing to take on the challenge without using LVOOP.)
-If you work at NI, convince your boss or higher level management this information is critical to the future growth of the LV ecosystem. Half a day or so once a week is a small price to pay for the knowledge gained. I suppose NI could hire a consultant or create an in-house team to do the R&D associated with this if they have money burning a hole in their corporate pocket... I'm just sayin'...
05-01-2012 03:42 PM
So great to read through this discussion thread! Excited you are organizing a contest. I saw mentions of hosting off site...if the only reason is due to quetions regarding NI's website Terms of Use, I would be happy to pass the issue by our legal team to get better clarification.
Let me know
Claire Reid
Community Manager
05-01-2012 09:34 PM
All right, I'm interested in Developer. Although I'm a CLA.