LabVIEW Tech Preview Opinion

[Blokk]

Why is the programming capabilities of LV very bare bones? Clearly many LV devs write quite sophisticated stuff and the language should reflect this.

Actually this is the benefit not to crowd the environment with higher level functions too much imho. You are free to add toolkits, and other cool things from companies like VIPM from JKI or code from the community ( https://decibel.ni.com/content/community/zone )

How about having more ways of visualizing the program than just the BD. For example by using layers and other dimensions in the diagrams?

I beleive it would be difficult to create such environment that easy to use and visualize. It is just easier to think in 2D (and LabVIEW is already one dimension better than text programming languages/dev environments). But using subVIs (either on the BD or calling them dynamically) is a bit like a 3rd dimension: you have a 2D block diagram, and another layer is the subVI... For sure a 3D dev env. would look very cool. But usability? I do not think it would be better.

EDIT: I watched the 2nd youtube video with the gaming soft environment. I do not see any 3D programming environment there. There is 3D graphics, but the coding part is 2D. Did I miss something?

[User002]

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@Blokk wrote:

EDIT: I watched the 2nd youtube video with the gaming soft environment. I do not see any 3D programming environment there. There is 3D graphics, but the coding part is 2D. Did I miss something?

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I'm mostly just interested in getting LV moved to contemporary SW dev. platforms. NI apparently are not capable of creating one themselves.

The coding, for all intents and purposes, could be done with sticks and stones, as long as it makes me more productive with every iteration.

Having extra editor 2D/3D capabilities/layers/dimensions in for example visualizing references, data flow, logic and performance would indeed be fantastic.

Edit: Here's some more regarding Blueprints in UE.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Blueprints/

[Intaris]

My job is 100% LabVIEW.  As such, I'm interested in solutions which secure the success of LabVIEW.  We're all aware of the problems.  That's nothing new.  If you see a problem which no-one has yet noticed and have a suggestion to solve that problem then great.

Following paragraph is an open personal note to NI and others:

I can't speak for others but at least as far as I am concerned, I am not going into this transition period blindly expecting everything to automatically be cool.  There are some things I have seen which worry me, but other things which I think will work out well.  I will say it as directly as I can: I do not possess unlimited faith in the future success of LabVIEW.  I don't think anyone should. I think it will turn out OK but I'm too old and too ugly to just close my eyes, cross my fingers and keep repeating to myself that all will be perfect.  Getting informed on the subject of upcoming developments and doing my best to direct it in the correct direction (as I see it) so that I can hopefully continue to use LabVIEW for the next 20 years is still by far my best option at the moment.  If that changes, then I will need to adapt.  But effort spent preventing that from happening is still significantly less than the effort required to switch careers at my age.

So I choose to engage in discussion and make suggestions to actual solutions instead of stamping my feet and screaming that things need to be better.  Because that might actually make a difference.  NI is not interested in my personal development or in yours.  They have shareholders and need to return a profit.  If I feel my needs are being ignored or diminished, I need to actively raise those points and engage with whoever I feel might be able to change things.  I would propose everyone do the same.

A healthy community helps give NI the feedback they require to make better decisions.

YMMV

Shane

[User002]

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@Intaris wrote:

So I choose to engage in discussion and make suggestions to actual solutions instead of stamping my feet and screaming that things need to be better.  Because that might actually make a difference.  NI is not interested in my personal development or in yours.  They have shareholders and need to return a profit.  If I feel my needs are being ignored or diminished, I need to actively raise those points and engage with whoever I feel might be able to change things.  I would propose everyone do the same.

A healthy community helps give NI the feedback they require to make better decisions.

YMMV

Shane

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So do I - by giving honest criticism _and_ a suggestion of a path forward in both technology and development process. 

Personally I think it indeed can make business sense to take these technologies and dev. org. audits/reviews into consideration before pursuing with whatever little was shown in the Tech Demo and LV2016

[Blokk]

Regarding to the future of LV, I think one of the most important key points is education(al material) and making the learning curve less steep. The programming skill distribution of LV users is a too steep pyramid. I work in the academic side (research and university), and I have a long experience with students and collegues when it comes to LabVIEW programming. It is enourmous how much manpower and resources are wasted at research centers and universities due to poor knowledge of LabVIEW and maintaining bad codes.

I know and see NI puts lots of effort into educational matters, and I think many things move into a good direction (LabVIEW Home edition!!!). I just want to say, there is always room to improve in this point:

• develop even better "Core 1, 2, 3, ..." videos...hey, I just see now the Core 1 is updated to a new version, and an updated Core 2 is coming on the 15th of August, good!...
• better (!) DAQmx learning material (hey, a "Core DAQmx self-paced learning video series would be cool too!") with even more examples, etc... I could even imagine real video episodes dealing with NI hardware, cabling, pinout, compatibility things, triggering, etc, etc...
• More more more example codes! Better white papers/teaching resources for the different State Machine designs, with real-life examples (those existing examples are very limited) including timing of a state machine and processes, etc...
• I think NI could even try to penetrate more into academic. LV Academic/Research licence is a great thing, LV Student version, student discounts for products and exams already exist. But hey, why not train (and retrain time by time to keep quality) and pay dedicated stuff to give lectures at universities (secondary schools) for free? It would be a good long term investment I beleive. There are just so many universities where the amount and quality of LV teaching is "subzero", due to lack of money and trained LV instructores. Even worse, when some professors without solid background try to give lectures to students...NI could even create a kind of scoring for universities, based on the number of CLAD/CLD/CLA in the stuff. So future students could see if a university is strong in terms of LV teaching, or not...

[User002]

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@Blokk wrote:

Regarding to the future of LV, I think one of the most important key points is education(al material) and making the learning curve less steep. The programming skill distribution of LV users is a too steep pyramid.ents could see if a university is strong in terms of LV teaching, or not...

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It is ironic how a programming language marketed as simple for beginners should need extensive education materials? 

The technically inclined kids/students of today can slap together a 3D game in C#, Blueprints and Python faster than it takes for NI to produce a run of the mill middle management slide deck.

I think simply the times have moved on and left LabVIEW in the dustbin of more or less irrelevant technologies.

[Blokk]

I disagree with you. And there is Lego nxt for kids... And for a kid needs as much time for a C# as for LV in my opinion...and LV is not for game graphics...

[User002]

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@Blokk wrote:
I disagree with you. And there is Lego nxt for kids... And for a kid needs as much time for a C# as for LV in my opinion...and LV is not for game graphics...

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I have seen it so many times - students cringing while working with LabVIEW. It has no appeal at all - nothing they can find interest in. You can see it in their eyes, it is a melancholy from looking into the clunky and stale bitmap based LabVIEW VI's floating in the back waters between the graphical and script based Matlab/Simulink and a "proper" text based language such as Python, C# and Java.

[Bob_Schor]

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@Blokk wrote:

Regarding to the future of LV, I think one of the most important key points is education(al material) and making the learning curve less steep. The programming skill distribution of LV users is a too steep pyramid. I work in the academic side (research and university), and I have a long experience with students and collegues when it comes to LabVIEW programming. It is enourmous how much manpower and resources are wasted at research centers and universities due to poor knowledge of LabVIEW and maintaining bad codes.

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I am also on the Academic/Research side.  But I was "asleep at the switch" when they announced that NIWeek 2017 would be the last week in May instead of the first week in August.  It wasn't until I said "See you next year" to a colleague from a Swiss University that he said "No, this might be my next NIWeek", and I realized that May (in many Universities) is Finals, Preparing for Finals, Grade submission, etc.  Are the Academic Days and academic reach-out being forgotten, or has someone just (as I did, shame on me!) overlooked the impact on our Academic Community?

Bob Schor

[User002]

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@Bob_Schor wrote:

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@Blokk wrote:

Regarding to the future of LV, I think one of the most important key points is education(al material) and making the learning curve less steep. The programming skill distribution of LV users is a too steep pyramid. I work in the academic side (research and university), and I have a long experience with students and collegues when it comes to LabVIEW programming. It is enourmous how much manpower and resources are wasted at research centers and universities due to poor knowledge of LabVIEW and maintaining bad codes.

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I am also on the Academic/Research side.  But I was "asleep at the switch" when they announced that NIWeek 2017 would be the last week in May instead of the first week in August.  It wasn't until I said "See you next year" to a colleague from a Swiss University that he said "No, this might be my next NIWeek", and I realized that May (in many Universities) is Finals, Preparing for Finals, Grade submission, etc.  Are the Academic Days and academic reach-out being forgotten, or has someone just (as I did, shame on me!) overlooked the impact on our Academic Community?

Bob Schor

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last?