Need PDA Recommendation

[Bill_Jacobs]

Hi Everyone,

I want to use the LabVIEW mobile module and NI-DAQmx Base to collect data using a PDA.  I need lots of channels and 16 bits of resolution on the A2D, so I want to use a NI USB-6218.  I recently installed LabVIEW 2009, the LabVIEW 2009 Mobile Module, and NI-DAQmx Base 3.3.

My problem is that I am having difficulty finding a PDA that meets all the requirements of the above listed software and the NI USB-6218.  According to the NI-DAQmx Base 3.3 readme file, the USB-6218 is supported only on Windows Mobile 5.0 and the PDA must have a USB 2.0 High Speed port.

I am not finding many options as far as a target PDA goes.  The few I have found are very expensive.

Does anyone have any recommendations?  I would prefer a ruggedized PDA, but that is not absolutely vital at this point.

Thanks you

Bill

[Robbob]

Bill,

It is true that there are not many PDA's with USB 2.0 host support.  Unfortunately, the manufacturers of these devices seem to not think that this is an important feature, and when they do include it, they charge a premium, as you have found.

I remember one of my customers had success with an Archer PDA but I have no idea how much they cost.  Considering the prices of umpcs('netbooks' - ive seen some for as low as $179) they may be something to consider as well, depending on how much portability you desire. Just be sure to get a SSD so it is shock resistant!

Edit - Make sure the Archer has USB 2.0 support

Message Edited by Robbob on 08-31-2009 11:25 AM

[Bill_Jacobs]

Thanks for the reply, Rob.

I can't use a netbook or similar system because I need the type of portability offered by a PDA or a handheld PC.

I had looked at the Archer and talked to a guy at Juniper Systems about it.  They do have USB 2.0 host capability, but he made clear that it was "Full Speed" not "High Speed."  I looked into the difference and learned that communication will be limited to 15 MBit/Sec, instead of 480 MBit/Sec.

Like I said in my original post, I wish to use a USB-6218.  This is due to the channel count and A2D resolution, not the sampling rates.  I don't need to use it anywhere near its highest rates.  I'm certain that all the data I need can squeeze into a 15 MBit/sec pipe.

I decided to request a demonstration Archer.  It can't hurt to try.

I had found another company whose website said they have a rugged PDA device that  works well with National Instruments products.  The specs said it included Windows Mobile 5.0 and high speed USB 2.0 host support.  Unfortunately, when I sent them an email to enquire about price and a demo I was told they are all out of the Windows Mobile 5.0 units and they will start selling Windows Mobile 6.0 units in October.

That is not the first device I have found that includes a USB 2.0 host port and Windows Mobile 6.0.  Unfortunately, the NI-DAQmx Base readme as well as numerous posts in the the NI discussion forums lead me to believe that NI is not yet supporting Windows Mobile 6.0.  I hope they do so soon.

Thanks again,

Bill Jacobs

[Robbob]

This is true, WM6 is not supported.

Please let me know how the Archer demo goes.  I may be looking into getting my team a suitable PDA to test higher end DAQ as well.

[BenBabb]

Bill,

I am excited to see some activity with the Archer and NI DAQ products.  I am the test engineer here at Juniper Systems.  Please post questions and results of your progress.  I will help with any questions that I can.

Cheers,

Ben

[Bill_Jacobs]

Hello Ben,

I'm hoping you have the time and interest to help me.  Or tell me where to go for help.

I received a demo Archer this week.  It seems like a nice little rugged PDA.  I hope I can make it work for my project.

I am trying to use it with an NI USB-6210 Multifunction DAQ device.  I installed NI-DAQmx Base 3.3.  So far so good.

When I plug the USB-6210 in, the Archer display flashes some progress bars on the screen and says something about installing NI-DAQmx Base drivers.  The LED on the USB-6210 blinks indicating that it is properly connected and is communicating with the driver.  So that seems ok.

I was able to build and run a test program using the LabVIEW 2009 Mobile module.  This was a very simple program, with just a few controls.  That little program executed fine on the PDA.  This program did not use NI-DAQmx Base.  I just wanted the simplest program possible to verify that I could run a VI on the Archer.  This ran fine.

I then created a slightly more complex VI that would create a NI-DAQmx Base task, create a digital output channel, then write values to that task in a loop. When the Exit button is clicked, the loop terminates, the task is cleaned up, and the program terminates.  That seems simple enough and was a copy of a program that runs fine on Windows Vista.

 Unfortunately, it did not run on the Archer.  The first time it ran, I got an error message which I unfortunately did not write down.  It said that the device did not exist.  I assumed that since it was the only device connected to the Archer that it would be "dev1" just as it was when it was connected to my PC.  I noticed that at some point, the LED on the USB-6210 stopped blinking meaning that the driver must have locked up.

Any thoughts?  Do you know of some software that can run on a PDA that can identify devices that are connected?

I'm at a loss here.  If you think this is something I should discuss with NI support, then just say so and I'll try that avenue.

Thanks very much.

Bill Jacobs

[BenBabb]

Hello Bill,

I do not have a USB-6210, but I have played with other USB devices on WM5.  There is a mode in the firmware I have to set to allow Windows Mobile to see and use the device.  By default the USB devices come set to work in a desktop enviornment.  These articles do not specifically mention the 6210, but it might be worth a look.

Switching firmware or Firmware compatability issues

I did read that the 6210 only works with dynamic task creation which is new.  This article talks about it.   Mobile Module article

I hope that helps, keep posting until we get the problems resolved.

Cheers,

Ben

[Bill_Jacobs]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the response.  I looked at the documents you mentioned yesterday.  I don't think I have a firmware issue.  When I first started on this project a few weeks ago, I did.

To eliminate the firmware problems, I setup my development system so that it does not have NI-DAQmx on it.  It only has NI-DAQmx Base 3.3.  I have a USB-6009 and the USB-6210.  To get the proper firmware on the USB-6009, I need to manually do it.  The utilities to do this and verify it are installed with NI-DAQmx Base.  For the USB-6210, the driver automatically installs the proper firmware when the device is plugged in.

I created test VIs that run on my development system.  They use NI-DAQmx Base and I can use both dynamic and static tasks with the USB-6009 and dynamic tasks with the USB-6210.  I have no problems whatsoever.

When I tried to build a similar set of test VIs to run on the Archer, nothing worked.  The call to DAQmxBase Create Virtual Channel.vi fails.  For the analog input test vi, I use "Dev1/ai0" for the physical channels parameter.  When I run my test vi on the Archer, the call sometimes returns with error code -200220 (device identifier is invalid).  Sometimes, it never returns and I have to use the Application Manager on the archer to terminate it.

Any thoughts?

Here is a basic question... When I setup my project, is the archer a Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC Device, or is it a Pocket PC 2003 Device?

Thanks

Bill

[hecmar.arreola]

I had a chance to play around with a demo of the Mobile module for LabVIEW and my 2003 PocketPC.  It worked well, but was kind of a pain to setup something.  I didn't have any real applications to utilize this setup, so I since abandoned the notion.  Still, seems like a cool feature of LabVIEW if you can round up the hardware and have the module.

Some questions/thoughts:

Why is a netbook out of the question?  Is it the fact that you need to use this thing "on your feet?"

Have you considered a tablet PC?

Have you looked into the line of NI DAQ devices that work over WiFi?

One thought I had, is to use something small like a netbook to handle the hardware interaction and all the program logic.  And then take advantage of LabVIEW Web Services to control the DAQ program and consume the data on your PDA.  If you stick with the PDA module, you could probably pipe the data to your PDA using SharedVariables over WiFi or Bluetooth.

[BenBabb]

Bill,

Your Archer should be a Windows Mobile 5.0 device.  You can verify that by going to Start->Settings->select System tab at the bottom->tap the About button.  That will give you system info on the OS version.

When you connect the USB device to the Archer are you connecting to the host port?  Both the client and host ports on the Archer use mini connectors requireing an adaptor cable.  The host is port A and client port B.

Cheers,

Ben