NI Linux Real-Time PXI / x86 / VM

[Hooovahh]

Well hopefully NI recognizes that this is a feature that other developers want.  I mean it is the #2 most kudo'd idea on the Real-time Idea Exchange.  One concern NI may have is that if something like a Linux VM were released, some might use it to deploy to real hardware, and then make cRIO clones that are compatible with LabVIEW for cheap.  We've already seen several RT hardware clones that have some level of LabVIEW compatibility. 

[rolfk]

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@Hooovahh wrote:

Well hopefully NI recognizes that this is a feature that other developers want.  I mean it is the #2 most kudo'd idea on the Real-time Idea Exchange.  One concern NI may have is that if something like a Linux VM were released, some might use it to deploy to real hardware, and then make cRIO clones that are compatible with LabVIEW for cheap.  We've already seen several RT hardware clones that have some level of LabVIEW compatibility. 

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I think you pointed out the very likely reason why NI doesn't feel like spending much energy in this. It means a significant effort in order to allow competitors to cannibalize their RIO sales. Even without bean counters in charge of the normal operations, this simply sounds totally wrong but for the geek effect, and NI engineers are not paid to be geeks but to develop products that NI can sell.

[yledieu]

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Hooovahh a écrit :

One concern NI may have is that if something like a Linux VM were released, some might use it to deploy to real hardware, and then make cRIO clones that are compatible with LabVIEW for cheap. 

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If you deploy a Linux RT VM to a real hardware you don't have a cRIO because you don't have the FPGA part and the I/O modules.

Furthermore, the Linux RT sources and build tools are published by NI on github, so i don't understand how a simple VM could be more "dangerous" for NI.

[rolfk]

Pretty simple! Build your own kernel and get it to work on a specific hardware! Then you will see that it is quite a tedious process

Even a VM is a specific hardware target although very much like a generic PC, which the cRIO certainly is not. The build scripts on Github are partly preconfigured for the cRIO and to get a Linux kernel image that will start up in a VM (or directly on your normal PC) will take some effort. Taking a preconfigured VM image to run on a standard PC compatible hardware is a lot easier unless your daily business is building Linux kernel images for embedded hardware.

[Hooovahh]

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@yledieu wrote:

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If you deploy a Linux RT VM to a real hardware you don't have a cRIO because you don't have the FPGA part and the I/O modules.

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There is value in a real time OS that is x86 based, and can have LabVIEW code deployed to it, outside of having an FPGA.  The embedded cDAQ hardware (big fan BTW) is running RT Linux, has a desktop environment with a display, keyboard and mouse support and USB storage.  If a company wanted to make a cDAQ clone using a cheap atom PC, and bundle with with some static IO they could undercut NI.

Of course this is something a group from China have already been doing with a Pocket-RIO, and Atom-RIO adding the FPGA and RT OS.  Here are a couple of their youtube videos.  Someone could argue that by having a VM of Linux RT it would make making this clone hardware easier.  

[dmoradi]

Hi Hooovahh

I managed to start my PXI on VM and connect to ot as a realtime target. But i couldnt make the timed loop to work. The while loop works ok but timed loop doesnt work.

is it the way it supposed to be or there is a way to make it work?

thanks for your post, it was very helpfull.

Regards

Davood

[Hooovahh]

Dang, so I tried a few things.  First I tried installing newer versions of the ISO.  I found 2.1, and 3.0 and both won't install in my VM.  It stalls at loading of the initial ISO.  After playing around with the VM settings I couldn't get it to boot.  Also never tested timed loops before, sorry to hear they don't work.  NI has been inching closer and closer to Linux RT on PXI by teasing more products so hopefully this will happen soon and a whole new set of things can be tried.

[fmorandat]

Hi,

I hadn't reloaded all this stuff from this time, thanks M. Davood.
I'm a little curious : why do you want to run the RT loop into a VM ? I mean, do you think that make any sense ?

You might consider asking to NI if it's an official company approach.
They're the best to answer it. Maybe they will agree.
But, as Hooovah, I sometimes hope for an official product.

Also, just to know, what's the version of LabVIEW and the iso you are running ?

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Well, I didn't know that NI had published all these ISO, Hooovahh, thanks.
But, the last one have been published this last September.
I would like to be certain to understand that you have continued your passion of running a VM all this time ?

[Hooovahh]

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@fmorandat wrote:

I would like to be certain to understand that you have continued your passion of running a VM all this time ?

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This started on a proposed project someone had within the company.  They wanted to know what display capabilities the new Linux RT devices had, and I wanted to play around with Network Streams, and sequencing capabilities.  Without hardware I wanted a way to simulate it and test various software as well as get experience in deploying to RT systems.  Oh and then there was the exercise in getting Wine in Linux RT, experimenting with making and installing opkg packages, testing file transfer code, and other system exec calls from within LabVIEW. 

Once I proved what was possible we bought 10 Linux RT system and started putting them into place.  (note NI that these experimental VMs lead to real-world sales)  At the moment I think we've made 5 systems so there are spares.  One sits at my desk and so I don't need a VM for doing development or testing of non IO components.  Soon though I expect all my spare systems to be taken up, and I'll be back to trying code on VMs when systems aren't available.

[fmorandat]

Ow... I didn't know that. All of that.
Maybe it's the best post I read the last few years.

Davood, if you want to get some light learning time on labVIEW Real-Time, remember you can also try LINX on RaspberryPi.

That's true it was nice M. Hooovah, thank you.