Attached Probe or Block Diagram Indicator

[RavensFan]

I like the concept of the probe watch window in LV 2009.  It is equivalent to using watch windows in other languages like Visual Basic.  However, I haven't used LV 2009 enough yet to get a feel for how I would use it.

With LV 8.6 and earlier, the probe windows are separate entities and detached.  This is good if you need to quickly jump to the front panel to hit a button or change a value and see the changes that are occuring the block diagram.  However, there are some issues with viewing them on the block diagram.

I'm watching a control loop subVI.  I've opened up a dozen probes to look at the values on the wires at different parts of the block diagram  (I'm not using highlight execution as I want things to run at full speed).  I scatter the probes around so that they are near the wires they represent.  That way at a glance I can see the path of data and how the decision structures are working.  However, if I need to scroll the block diagram, or move the whole window to look at something else, the probe windows stay where they are and obstruct the view of the other things.  Then it is difficult to relocate the window or scroll bars so that the probes line up with their wires again.  If I am doing this with a couple of subVI's, then all the probes intermingle and it is impossible to tell whether a value is from the visible subVI or a subVI that is hidden underneath a few other windows.

What I propose is an attached probe.  Once you place it on the block diagram, it stays associated with that location/wire.  move the window, it moves.  Scroll the diagram, it scrolls.  Hide the window, it hides as well.  Also make the window slightly smaller so you don't need all the space for the title bar, X button.

Go one step farther and instead of making it a probe, let it be what is essentially a front panel object on the block diagram.  So that it looks like a basic indicator, or a boolean LED, or even an array or graph.  You drop it on the BD and wire it up.  When you are done, you delete it.  Scroll the BD, move the window, things stay where you want.

See BD indicators.png for the proposed way and Current Way.png for the problems with the current way.  I did put the images in the message, but they filled the screen and overlapped other parts of the web page.

Message Edited by Ravens Fan on 09-16-2009 05:18 PM

[JackDunaway]

Clever. Would you propose they are saved with the VI as well?

[RavensFan]

I think it would make sense that they be saved as well.  That way they are stored so that if you have to stop working on a VI, you can jump right back into debugging the VI when you get back to it.  There could be some LabVIEW compiling issues to be worked out.  When the VI is compiled into an .exe and the block diagram is stripped away, of course those features will be stripped from the code.  But if debugging is enabled, then it would be nice to have those same probes/indicators on the BD so that you can debug while in the .exe enviroment.

Perhaps a menu choice could be added to delete all of those probe/indicator objects in one click so that you can clean up the BD when you are done with debugging.

[jkurtw]

Interesting... another way to think of it would be to have controls and indicators show their values on the diagram as well as the front panel. 

This way you would see a "5.6" rather than DBL on your numberic indicator. 

Message Edited by jkurtw on 09-17-2009 10:15 AM

[JackDunaway]

jkurtw, you are suggesting the output terminal becomes a probe. So, terminals would have three views: Icon, Not-Icon, and Probe. I like it! But, we would need an option for intermediate logic that allows the BD probe view without creating a FP object.

[GregSands]

I don't see the point of making controls/indicators have a probe view as you can always see its value on the FP.  Almost always, I want probes in places where I don't have indicators - therefore the original suggestion (a BD indicator without FP representation) looks really useful.  Kudos++!

[X.]

As long as it does not supersede the existing LV 2009+ probe window, I am for more power to the user. I am kind of worried of cases where the probe would cover significant chunks of the diagram though...

[RavensFan]

Adding a reply so that the images can be more visible.

Also, this idea would be very similar to debugging ladder logic in a PLC program, where you see the logic and the current values simultaneously.

Current Way:

Proposed Idea: